H2 2nd conversation of Luis Jiménez Marhuenda with an Ummite

2nd CONVERSATION WITH AN UMMITE - Luis Jiménez Marhuenda, 22 March 1987, from 12:45 to 14:45, duration 2 h 00'

Call at about 12:45. I was at the radio station and he spoke first with my wife. She told him I would be back at about 1:15 and took the opportunity to talk with him a little. The words she noted down are roughly these:
We are very sad to see the situation women suffer on your planet. They are in a state of servitude and marginalisation. We are very sad to see that some of your brothers maintain that attitude in spite of our recommendations.

To Mari's question: What can women do to avoid it?, he says: They must study hard, learn, and strive to reach the same cultural level as men.

He asks her when I would be in and tells her he would call again. When my programme ends at 1 p.m., my wife calls me at the station without finding me. I had already hung up and left for home. That very day we had arranged to meet at about one with my mother, my sister, her two boys aged 14 and 11 and another couple, friends of ours, with two children of the same age, to go to the Río Safari in Elche. When he started calling the house, they were ready to go out and spend the afternoon away. So, when I receive the call (at about 13:20 or so), I am shut in my study and everyone is waiting for me. As I am telephoning from the living room, first my mother and then my sister also heard the conversation.

He began by saying my name with some difficulty, although this time I heard him much better than the previous time.

He asks me not to record the conversation and I tell him that last time I recorded it but erased it, and that the only reason for the recording is to retain all the details of the conversation.

I do not remember the beginning well, because no notes were asked for. When I picked up the paper, the first words of the gentleman from Ummo that I wrote down were: You have exaggerated. I do not remember what he was referring to, but I suppose it was in reference to what I had said about them. I went straight into the questions I had prepared, most of them suggested by Domínguez and Farriols. The first was about black holes. He tells me to take notes and that he was going to dictate. My notes were written in too much of a hurry and some confusion may arise now in transcribing them, but this is what was taken down.

Ummo - In reality the Black Hole is impossible, because when a star collapses, there comes a moment when it becomes a neutron star. If it goes on collapsing, there comes a moment when it disappears from our universe by «boundary effect». The black hole ceases to exist and the universe reduces its mass by the mass of the collapsed star. What you consider black holes are in reality neutron stars and not genuine black holes. For example, one of the first neutron stars is in the constellation of Cygnus, 8,365 light years away. In reality it is a neutron star, not a black hole. The radius of (here I have doubts about this name, but he tells me my friends knew it) SCHWALLITZ
SCHWARZSCHILD radius
appeared and disappeared instantaneously. It is instantaneous. At that instant the mass of the black hole has become NEGATIVE mass in the other universe. The mass has disappeared, understood as negative mass, mass with a negative charge, that is, a different electric charge. And the energy of the black hole has become mass.

Luis Jiménez Marhuenda - Given my ignorance of these subjects, and knowing the extraordinary kindness of our friends from UMMO, I would not be surprised if they sent a report completing these data, which, as I said at the beginning, may contain some transcription error.

L. - The next question: When is the soul incorporated into the human body?
I try to transcribe his answer more or less:

U. - At the very moment of copulation. What happens is that at first the soul is not «crystallised».

L. - I believe he used the adjective «blank» to try to say it was a soul not yet forged, as if in an embryonic state. As he sensed - or knew - that the question touched on the problem of ABORTION (or perhaps it was I who said so), he tackles the subject without any qualms, putting forward this comparison:

U. - Think of a building. First the plan is drawn, then the foundations are laid, construction begins and it is finished. Depending on how far the building under construction has progressed, its destruction will have more serious consequences. Which do you think is worse: destroying a finished building or a half-built one?

L. - Logically, destroying the finished one.

U. - The model can serve equally in this case. It is lawful for a mother to destroy an embryo in its beginnings, provided she has a very justified reason. If a mother knows she cannot take care of her future child, that she will not be able to feed it, educate it, etc., she has the right to destroy it. But depending on how advanced the pregnancy is, its destruction will be more serious. In the early stages it is not very serious, because the soul is not yet «crystallised» as such.

(Faced with information of such interest, I thought I could not limit myself to quick written transcription - I am no stenographer - and I ask him whether I may record, not his voice, but only mine repeating what he told me. He agreed, although this creates problems for me, because he speaks and I repeat what he has said; he continues, and while repeating I miss what he says in the meantime. In any case, he infers what consequences transcribing them has. In the end, I made a compilation of everything and have looked for whatever remains of what we said without recording.)

L. - Do you know other inhabited planets? (I knew from an earlier report that they had visited other planets and established contacts.)

U. - Yes, we know other inhabited planets and we have visited them. The contact has been of the same type as with you. We take great care not to interfere in the evolution of each planet. And the beings of other planets do not interfere with ours or with the others either; it would be violating the law.

L. - Yes, you have said that already, but do you not sometimes consider that you might establish official contact with our planet?

U. - Not for now.

L. - But is there not a certain link between UMMO and OYAGAA owing to the similarity between UMMOWOA and Jesus Christ?

U. - Yes, that is true. But on other planets the same one is also present.

L. - Then we ask who UMMOWOA or Jesus Christ is, because if the same BEING must suffer physically the tortures suffered by Jesus Christ on Earth and by UMMOWOA on UMMO...

U. - No, it is not the same BEING. He is a son of God, but he is not the same BEING. He is an ENVOY. Because WOA sends the information. That information is WOA. The information that exists in the WAAM-WAAM is WOA, it is GOD. That is why the Word is GOD.

(L. - He explained to me the evangelist's reason when he says «In the beginning was the Word...».)

God created the WAAM-WAAM by generating information. When He sends it through a HUMAN BEING, that INFORMATION becomes FLESH: it is the figure of the Saviour, in our case Jesus Christ. But it is not a speciality of UMMO or of the Earth. Other planets have it too. In this case it has happened that on UMMO and on the Earth it has been identified.

(L. - I suppose he is referring to the identity of the life and death of UMMOWOA and of Jesus Christ.)

L. - But on all the inhabited planets has he also suffered tortures?

U. - It is a law. Because suffering crystallises in man and raises him spiritually. When we suffer we contribute - (illegible in the text)... - to the universe.

We explain it in a report we will send you. It is the most important of all those we have sent you. (L. - He explains that only some people will receive it; I think four.)

L. - Look. If you give us a new and renewing concept of the Universe, of the Soul, and we believe it may be good for us, it will be good for humanity. Is it not advisable that in some way, without citing its origin, we try to make it public...?

U. - It is not advisable.

L. - What can we do to support...?

U. - It will be discovered on your planet little by little.

L. - Can we not push it along a little with our means?

U. - You must not do so. Only in your social micro-network.

L. - If it is for us, at our level, for our benefit... You say in a report that we can do one single thing to overcome the world's problems and the torments our planet is living through: act upon the collective soul.

U. - You must act upon your own social network. It is very important that you meet often and strengthen your affection for one another. It is VERY IMPORTANT. If you wish to repay us for what we have given you, you can pay us simply with LOVE among the members of the social network. That love has an IMPACT on the collective soul.

L. - We agree completely, because at every moment of my life I have introduced it into radio programmes and the media... I have tried to intensify those feelings.

U. - Why do you think we chose you? Because we knew what your intentions were... because you shared that concern with us before knowing us. You have made a great effort to achieve it...

L. - But I must work harder...

U. - It is an obligation. (L. - Here a series of very kind phrases about me which I do not repeat for the recording and, alas, have forgotten. A punishment for having sinned by vanity... and it is a pardonable sin in our race.)

L. - However, I do not think I can be the best in that feeling. There are others who can do much more.

U. - No, you are very valuable. (L. - See how, when he says something flattering about me, it gets recorded, so I put it in. But there is no sin of vanity here; it is just an encouragement to cheer me up and not feel an idiot doing the synopsis of the film.)

L. - (In response to other kind phrases of his.) Thank you very much; it fills me with satisfaction to know there is no misunderstanding.

U. - But do not fall into the sin of vanity. Do not be proud of it. Strive to practise humility.

L. - But I am a human being! Understand that what you tell me is a satisfaction. (Here, without false modesty, I think it «went down well»)

U. - But take care above all of your YIE and then of your children. This is paramount: first of all your YIE and, after that, your children.

(L. - I think that means we must keep our feet on the ground, be pragmatic and not aspire to the sublimation of the absolute, which harms us in normal life.)

U. - (L. - He insists) First comes you, your wife, your children... and then your whole social network. Especially your social micro-network. You do not know the importance of the social micro-network of 9 people that has been spoken of. (L. - I do not transcribe the part about the 9 people who will receive a report in 80 days because I did not record that part with my voice, but it was half noted down earlier.)

U. - You must inform your brothers of the importance of that social micro-network. VERY IMPORTANT.

L. - But do you not consider that we already love one another a great deal?

U. - It is insufficient.

L. - That surprises me.

U. - It is precisely a greater level of affection. Intensify the current of affection among you. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

L. - We do... and moreover it is very easy, because they are all delightful people. For me it is very easy... and I think for the others too.

U. - Try to intensify the current of affection among you.

L. - We will follow that rule.

U. - Above all that network, that micro-network... must develop its spiritual contact... those 9 names we give you must develop that current of spiritual affection.

Here it was cut off. I had asked whether they intended to call Juan Domínguez. A whole lot of questions must have come to me and, in spite of the two hours of conversation, I did not have time to ask them. He cut off without warning.

In the continuation of this conversation I have transcribed, I have a part with questions on family matters, the education of children, etc. Likewise, I passed on my son's question about some words he had said at his school on the UMMO subject: whether they had approved of them or whether they were harmful. He answered that they had approved and that at those levels there was nothing harmful.

On education, he gave me a lesson.

He says terrestrial pedagogy is very modern and gives very valid rules for education. That parents should never argue in front of their children, that they should avoid quarrelling in front of them, that they should maintain a common opinion of respect for the rules, that they should never contradict each other, because in children's heads that causes great disturbance; that they should always agree in front of them. Above all there must be great harmony between the spouses, reaching agreement beforehand, because the opposite causes terrible disturbance to the children. Too much laxity is not advisable. Discipline is very important. But without letting anything pass, and never physical harm. The sanction must be the deprivation of something.

I also forgot that he told my wife that we must not abandon our Earth values for theirs. That it is not acceptable for our children to be carried away too much by extraterrestrial values; that they should think they are of the Earth, that they owe themselves to this planet and must not let themselves be towed along by extraplanetary doctrines, rules and fashions. Even that it is good to maintain some doubt about the authenticity of their extraterrestrial origin.

Other questions asked and not transcribed: What is prayer for?

Prayer serves when it is an act of self-giving and love. Not as a REQUEST. It is absurd to ask God, who knows what is good for us. It is almost a blasphemy to think that God can change His designs, that HE will not grant us what is fitting. It does not seem so to us, but He knows our designs and goes beyond what we ask for the immediate moment. Prayer is good as meditation, as an act of love; it always serves as a harmonious vibration of generosity.

I wish I could transcribe his words in full, because it is something very beautiful and obscure.

On Jesus Christ. The figure of Jesus Christ has been greatly altered by the Gospels. The evangelists are not to blame, because they were not historians. But it has been greatly altered.

On communion. It is a symbol. A good symbol.

L. - Do you know Anthar Sherat?

U. - Everything that has been said about him is false.

L. - Do you know the case of Miguel Herrero, of Alcalá de Henares?

U. - A gentleman who drives lorries, who works as a driver... Yes, we know him. He is absolutely an impostor.

L. - Do you know the case investigated by Antonio Ribera about the subterranean beings, including some photos?

U. - We have not yet studied that case.

L. - And the case of Julio F., of Madrid?

U. - We do not know it. He promises he will send it to me anyway.

L. - What do you think of Jean-Pierre Petit?

U. - He is a very intelligent man. We respect his intelligence. We have not contacted him because he belongs to the country of France. The French micro-network has been very prudent in disclosing our information.

L. - Where is the body of Jesus Christ now?

U. - Diluted in space. His atoms will be diluted in the cosmos. Here he gives a fuller explanation, but I do not detail it because I did not record it, although it is about how they are diluted in the cosmos.

L. - The subject of sexuality recently raised by the Vatican.

U. - It is a very grave error that is going to cause terrible harm. It does not at all keep to what the Second Vatican Council postulated. It has all been suggested by a Catholic theologian, (L. - he tells me the name and I do not remember it; I know he is well known and I could look him up in my books, but it would be a waste of time and you already know him. It sounds like Shelingen or Salinger or something like that.) That man is a paranoiac.

L. - We find it strange and incongruous that you do not wish the news of your existence to spread and yet you choose to greet people like Jiménez del Oso, Benítez and myself, who work in the media.

U. - We do not choose them for being media people, but for their «heart», for their cosmic concern. It so happens that both Benítez and Jiménez del Oso have a great cosmic concern.

L. - I also remember having talked about abortion.

U. - He insists that it is only the mother who must make the decision.

L. - The question whether they have a sense of humour...

U. - ...and he tells me yes, but that it is very different from that of the Earth. And that they did not understand ours well because of semantic difficulties. They will correct a semantic error they made in a report, but I do not remember the sentence they are referring to.

Finally, I think I should point out that this is a literal transcription as reflected in my recorded voice, which repeats what he said. But I do not repeat everything, because he keeps talking and, if I repeat, I miss the continuation. That is why there are gaps. If you are going to record them, let them know. I noticed that they used «you» or «we» by mistake, whereas I repeat in the first person.

Well, I think that is all. It lasted two hours, because it ended at 3 in the afternoon. Perhaps the two most enriching hours of my life.

Greetings to all.